Why Trusting Your Instinct Is Your Best Bet According to Juliet & Kelly Starrett
Kelly Starrett, DPT is a coach, physical therapist, author, and speaker. Along with his wife Juliet, Kelly is co-founder of The Ready State.
The Ready State began as Mobility|WOD in 2008 and has gone on to revolutionize the field of performance therapy and self-care.
Kelly’s clients include professional athletes in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB. He also works with Olympic gold-medalists, Tour de France cyclists, a world- and national-record-holding Olympic lifting and power athletes, CrossFit Games medalists, ballet dancers, military personnel, and competitive age-division athletes.
Kelly is the author of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers Becoming A Supple Leopard and Ready to Run. He is also co-author (with Juliet) of the Wall Street Journal bestseller Deskbound.
His latest book, Waterman 2.0, offers water-sport athletes a comprehensive guide to optimized movement and pain-free performance.
Kelly and his work have been featured on 60 Minutes, The View, The Joe Rogan Experience, CBS Sports, Outside Magazine, Men's Health, Men's Journal, and dozens of other podcasts, magazines, and books — including Tim Ferriss' The 4-Hour Body and Tools of Titans.
On top of co-founding The Ready State, Kelly and Juliet also started San Francisco CrossFit and StandUpKids together.
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Nicole Holland 0:04
Hey, there entrepreneur. Welcome back to another fascinating episode of Fascinating Founders. I'm your host, Nicole Holland and I'm thrilled to be your guide as we dive in and uncover the stories that came before the success of some of the world's most fascinating founders. hailing from a multitude of industries and socio-economic starts, you're going to learn what's made these fascinating men and women realize their dreams from an inspired idea to millions in revenue, disrupting, innovating and impacting humanity for the better. Today's episode is brought to you in part by Podcasting Goldmine. Are you reaching and converting your ideal buyers through podcasts yet? You'd better believe that your competition is the podcast industry is exploding right now with billions of dollars being poured into it and well over 1 million active podcasts in the directories in just the past 90 days alone. Hundreds of thousands of new podcasts have been added and the industry will continue to grow. Whether or not you're a part of it your market My friend is listening to podcasts. And I would love to personally help you design a strategic podcast marketing plan to help your company scale and reach your business growth goals through podcasts from getting you featured as the expert guest on premium podcasts that your ideal buyers are already listening to, to designing and launching a profitable podcast for your company to show sponsorship and advertising. podcasting for business growth is totally my jam. If you're ready to take a serious look at how you can effectively leverage podcasts for business growth. Visit PodcastingGoldmine.com and request a complimentary consultation for us to explore how we can make podcasts work for you. Again, that URL is PodcastingGoldmine.com you Now you never know what we're gonna get into on an episode of Fascinating Founders. So get your notebook ready, cozy up with a Great Cup of Joe, and let's dive into another inspiring journey with today's guest.
Dr. Kelly Starrett is a coach, physical therapist, author, and speaker, along with his wife Juliet. Kelly is co-founder of the ready state. The ready state began as mobility WOD in 2008 and has gone on to revolutionize the field of performance therapy and self-care. Kelly's clients include professional athletes in the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB. He also works with Olympic gold medalists Tour de France cyclists, world and national record holding Olympic lifting and power athletes, CrossFit Games medalist ballet dancers, military personnel, and competitive age division athletes. Kelly is the author of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers, becoming a subtle leopard and ready to run. He is also co-author with Juliet of The Wall Street Journal bestseller, desk-bound his latest book Waterman. 2.0, offers water sport athletes a comprehensive guide to optimize movement and pain-free performance. Kelly and his work has been featured on 60 minutes, the view the Joe Rogan experience CBS Sports outside magazine, Men's Health men's journal and dozens of other podcasts, magazines and books, including Tim Ferriss, the Four Hour Body and tools of Titans on top of CO founding the ready state, Kelly and Juliet also started San Francisco CrossFit and stand up kids together.
Welcome to the show, Juliet and Kelly. Let's kick things off with you guys giving our listeners a quick overview about what you and your company do and the market that you serve.
Kelly Starrett 3:58
Very simple. Thanks for having us. Ready state is basically an online platform where we try to teach and empower people on how to take care of their bodies, how to make themselves feel better, how to move better. And it encompasses an entire digital platform of coaching, training, remote coaching. We've been doing this for a minute, and we see that there's a big hole in the world in terms of people understanding how they move and how to make themselves feel better.
Juliet Starrett 4:21
And as far as the market we serve, you know, our core audience is people who are athletic in some form or fashion, although we do actually serve up a lot of content on how to take care of your body and how to manage your own pain and injuries. So broadly speaking, you know, our audience has anyone who has a body and wants to take care of it.
Nicole Holland 4:42
I love it. And the way that I first learned about to actually I started doing CrossFit for anybody who's been with me a while you guys know I've gone on my own health journey and lost like 60 pounds and overcame some, some autoimmune issues and when I was in it, and I went In that Ill state, I could not even lift like a casserole dish. I was so broken physically, emotionally everything. And once I got control of my health and I was able to lose some weight and I was able to get get healthier through the help of Western medicine, I was able to really focus on Okay, now let's go to mind body and everything. And so I joined a CrossFit gym having never done CrossFit before. But it was right down the street from my house, I could walk there I put that into my routine, I thought this is what I need to do. So I started learning CrossFit or my coach Tony over at coach house fitness or coach, house, CrossFit, I think and, and when he started working with me, it was all about healing your body and you have the power to do that. And he was always talking about the subtle, the subtle bird and we had charts of Kelly everywhere. cards and he would like revere Kelly. And it's so funny because I had been hearing about Kelly for all this time before I actually met you, Juliet. So just the personal side note there like I am such a fan of what you do. And I was so in pain and broken and unhealthy when I first started implementing the things that the ready state teaches. So I just wanted to say, had Yeah, shut up.
Juliet Starrett 6:38
Well, thanks for that.
Kelly Starrett 6:40
You know, and let me just say that I think that's a really normal common expression of being a human being is that you do you do everything that society tells you to do. We eat the way we were taught to eat, we sleep the way we were, you know, we just sort of figure it out and all of a sudden, we can do that for a long time. And then something something stops working or you find yourself sort of in In the hole, you realize, Holy moly, maybe I'm not doing any of the things as well as I could. And anyone of those things sleeping more walking more mobilizing can have a huge impact on the way you feel, and more importantly, your ability to control how you feel
Nicole Holland 7:13
100% and I needed some support in seeing that. And again, I'm just blown away by the way that the mobility stuff you do. And I know we haven't even gotten into this yet. It's just like, glowing recommendation for the ready state. The way I started, I had no even though used to be a licensed massage therapist and I know how the body works. There were all these things that I learned through Kelly's teaching of it to everybody I guess and my my coaches implementation of it and teaching me about this mobility stuff and being able to literally heal something in my body that I used to believe needed to be dealt with by doctors or surgery or whatever. So yeah, I love what you guys do. I love the degree that Shares it with Kelly, you mentioned that you guys have been doing it for a minute. Let's go back to the very beginning of how the ready state started. So can you just take us back and give us a little overview of that?
Juliet Starrett 8:14
Sure thing it. I'll start with that one just because I enjoy the story so much. But we we actually started off as a company called mobility WOD and WOD is stands for workout of the day and we have since changed our name to the ready state. But way back in 2008, we also own a CrossFit gym called San Francisco CrossFit, which was the 21st CrossFit as a side note, and Kelly is a physical therapist, as you mentioned, and he had a physical therapy practice inside of our gym and what he started seeing between 2005 and 2008 when mobility WOD first began was kind of the same sets of musculoskeletal problems day in and day out, you know, shoulder pain, hip pain, low back pain, knee pain. Pretty standard things that he saw over and over and over again. In fact, a cake kind of became a joke between the two of us, he would come home at night and say, Okay, I saw this person with this and this and this, you know, what would you do to fix them and I started becoming like an armchair physical therapist myself. But what I think Kelly realized and saw the beginning, was that most of these musculoskeletal injuries he was seeing were, were often based in poor movement, and not only based on poor movement at the root cause, but also something that these people could literally fix on their own. So what are you seeing is people taking two hours out of the middle of their workday, you know, paying 150 or $200 an hour out of pocket for Kelly to work on them and fix them. And all these things are things that people in his view could do on their own, both by learning how to move better and by learning how to take care of their musculoskeletal health. So that was really the origin of it. Kelly decided to make a video On YouTube at the very beginning of YouTube, the dawn of YouTube. And he made a single video. We didn't tell anyone, we just put it out on the web. And all of a sudden people started watching it. Is that a fair backstory? Kelly, what do you have to add?
Kelly Starrett 10:14
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that we've always set up to do is we didn't set out to actually build a business, we set out to solve a set of problems. And I mean, you know, Juliet is an attorney. I'm a physical therapist, we did not have training, or even sort of ideations about being entrepreneurs or running a gigantic company. And here we are, Juliet is very sophisticated CEO, and we had to learn and pick up those skills sort of post facto, because for us, it was about hey, let's, let's improve this aspect and serve our community. And we've heard that story over and over again. But for us, it's really true, that solve this problem for me, let's solve it for athletes and athletes we know and then that snowballed into realizing that we saw something and an opportunity to serve more people.
Juliet Starrett 10:55
And I just want to add one more, one more piece of the story and that is that first videos became what we call the mobility project where we published a video a day, for 365 days, I think it might have taken us like 17 months actually or something to actually get a video the day out. But we we put all these videos up for free on YouTube literally just as as education for people to learn how to move and take care of their bodies. And there was literally nothing like it out there, there was no content like it. And again, we at this point, it wasn't a business, we were making no money off of it, we still didn't have any idea that it would become a business but we just we saw these problems over and over again in the clinical setting and thought man, people should be able to fix this stuff on their own. Let's make some videos.
Nicole Holland 11:39
Amazing. So you lead with the value you were solving the set of problems that you were seeing with your own clients and with people I guess who came to the gym as well and just decided to help them just put out that free content. I love that you did 365 videos so that there's more one a day, and that you just told us it may have taken 17 months, I think sometimes we get caught up in the half to dues. And they Okay, it's got to be perfect. And with, especially with content creation and content publication, I think especially online, it's something that a lot of people struggle with. What did you find? Then once you you'd put this content out, you knew it was going to be helpful? How did it become a business? Like how did you go from just putting out free content to deciding to make money from it?
Juliet Starrett 12:32
I just want to make a quick sidebar and say that our content was definitely not flashy. I was the videographer, and I'm terrible at it. Our audio was terrible. We fill most of the videos with poor lighting in our garage. But you know, I will say that often if you have good content, people don't care about all that stuff. I mean, you know, obviously, our video quality has improved dramatically since then. And you know, they're, they're edited and have logos and flashy stuff, and great off and so forth. But, you know, I think people just really resonated with the content itself. And were willing to sort of overlook the poor quality of the content. It was so good,
Nicole Holland 13:08
I think to the fact that you had been serving people in a way nobody was serving before. And I think that's something we can get caught up now today, too, is like, Oh, well, there's all these people on YouTube and how do I stand out and sometimes it really is just being real not not sometimes I think often it is just like being real, and just doing the thing. You can't expect to get you to know, graduate level results when you're, you know, starting out kindergarten level of being able to hold the phone and do that do the different things. But I think you guys started this at a different time, obviously, when nobody else was doing it. But I think something worth mentioning too, you know, to our listeners is, if there's something that you do in a special way that others are not doing like taking this inspiration, whether it's YouTube video or anything else, but the consistency is what I love that you did, and that you didn't have to be perfect starting out, and that you knew you wanted to do a full year's worth of daily videos, but you took longer than a year to do it. And it's like,
Kelly Starrett 14:15
we may be, we may be at like 4000 videos now, through the site. And, you know, the it's difficult to imagine the time but you know, the iPhone didn't have a video camera at the time. I mean, that's that's how long ago we started. And what I would what I would admonish people is to get started, get you know, it's easier now the barrier entry, there are better microphones and easier cameras and easier uploads. And you know, but the thing to do is we were very transparent Julie and I both had three jobs between us, you know, two children. And you know, this wasn't this wasn't just sort of a passion project. And the key I think, is to get started, and then you can improve and practice and if you I can't watch those early videos, I'm just terrible. I mean, and, and they're all still on YouTube. There's always nothing like lots and lots and lots of reps and then you also get an email feedback, you have to look at this as this conversation with the people that you're working with and trying to help. And, you know, I think a lot of our success came from people finding out, hey, this was really useful. This was less useful. You know, you have to develop a thick skin as soon as you kind of go out into the digital marketplace. But no, I think that initial practice, we are very, very grateful for that we have opportunity to just make so many mistakes.
Nicole Holland 15:23
Amazing. Go ahead.
Juliet Starrett 15:26
Well, I was going to then I was actually going to answer your question about how we turned it into a business. And, you know, we made we continued by the way after the mobility project ended, we continued making videos not quite on such a breakneck pace, but we continued making videos all the way up into 2011 and 2012. And in between that time, we actually developed a few courses around this and Kelly started traveling around the world teaching what was a very popular course called movement and mobility. And so he was traveling and teaching all over all over the world, these methods that we've started in our YouTube channel and you We wanted to continue making content. But we honestly did reach a point where we thought, okay, if we want to actually up the quality of our video and actually hire professionals to be able to help us make this content and sort of meet people where they are, and then, you know, changing and dynamic digital environment, we actually need to be making at least a little bit of money on this. And so we, you know, debated whether we wanted to just do straight advertising on our videos and stay on YouTube, but we decided to try out a membership platform. And it was pretty special at that point, because honestly, in 2012, the only people that were charging for content on the internet were like the New York Times and porn, honestly. And so in the health and fitness business, nobody else had had a membership site. So it was a big risk for us. But, you know, we started off just thinking, Oh, man, if we can just get 500 people to subscribe to our site. You know, we can get a nice camera and maybe someone to help us with the audio and just some basic stuff. So again, even though we turned on as a membership site in 2012, or 13, we still weren't really thinking that it would grow the way it has, and that it would become the business that it has. We just really wanted to kind of up our game and make it sustainable for us as a family. So that was sort of how we turned it into a business, again, did not have a business plan or real, real serious ideas of making it into a big huge business like it has become.
Nicole Holland 17:21
I love that. So it was really organic, and just that recognition of, okay, we want to keep doing this. And it's helping people and the passion project can only take so much of your time and you needed to be able to make some money. So you launched that first membership site. Can you talk a little bit about number one, how you let people know And number two, kind of what was the result? So today, you know, there are membership sites everywhere and people I hear a lot in my space. They either struggle with getting people into boat, getting people into their membership sites, or having people Join as members or they have like, just a constant flow. And I'd love to know in the early days, how was that I know you guys now absolutely have a constant flow. I'd love to know in the early days, how did you market it? How did you get that first 500 people and any takeaways that you can offer our listeners?
Juliet Starrett 18:21
Well, I know we made some kind of an announcement. And it was so long ago now that I don't know if we did that by email or what exactly we did. And, you know, I was really nervous when we sort of press go on the paid site. And I will be honest, that I was, like, overwhelmingly pleasantly surprised. I think Kelly was too I think we thought we'd get a lot of negative feedback. And I swear, we got like two people who complained and I, you know, I know we promoted it on Facebook and Instagram didn't exist yet. So we put it out on whatever social platforms we were using. And we got a couple of negative comments. But what was super interesting is we didn't even have to go in and defend our fans actually went in and hardcore defended us against the detractors in and they all basically said, hey, these guys have been putting out amazing content for free and of course it should charge and I'd happily pay 999 for this, you know, 10 times over. And so it's interesting because it was a very small amount of negative feedback. And we actually didn't have to engage at all because we had sort of developed this big, big, and very loyal fan base. People were both happy to pay and, and also happy to defend us against any detractors.
Kelly Starrett 19:30
And one of the things I just add to that is, at no point did we ever be like, we didn't just turn on the internet and be like, okay, we've made it, you know, we, you know, I started teaching a course in 2008. We taught four courses a month, twice, you know, two weekends a month we taught, plus all of the other ancillary speaking engagements, helping with organizations trying to unravel some of these musculoskeletal problems and health problems. We worked and we didn't say no to anything. And so what we realized early on was that to creating an ecosystem, we have our test kitchen, we have our teaching hospital in the city at our gym, we had this sort of online international teaching platform. And we did all these other things and and wrote on the blog a lot, really trying to help people solve their own problems. So we saw that there was no one thing that made the whole system. We continue to just see it as part of the whole sort of organism.
Juliet Starrett 20:23
Yeah, and we continue to make content on YouTube throughout all this time. So you know, we continue to see free, easy, accessible content, and, you know, simultaneously had this membership platform. So I think, you know, we were able to get a lot of people in the door right away way more than we expected, partly because we have literally spent nearly five years up to that point, sort of creating an audience and giving people content that helped them and made them feel better, which then created a loyal audience. But one story I wanted to tell and you you will probably remember this because you were there. I think what they call what we were doing then now content marketing. That's like the digital marketing term. But you know, I was just at traffic and conversions last year with you. And there was this big, flashy, amazing presentation all about all the current amazing, awesome trends in digital marketing. And Kelly and I were expecting to be like blown away by all these new things you could do. And Ryan Deiss, the CEO of the company is like the new thing in digital marketing is content marketing. You should have a blog and a podcast, and give away amazing free content to people and we sort of chuckled and like elbowed each other in the audience. Because we thought, Man, this is what we've been doing all along. And we thought that you know, you're supposed to be doing all these super-secret ninja digital marketing things and really, you know, we've come full circle in the digital world where the advice now is do what we were doing back in 2008. Keep doing that. Yeah.
Nicole Holland 21:54
I think sometimes people get caught up and actually not sometimes I see this so much, and I know I've been getting If you have it, and I just want to like shake and hug people, because oftentimes we're doing exactly what we should be doing, but we have all this messaging coming at us from in terms of like marketing and everything, you know how to do this to grow your business and oh, this is the thing, this is the thing and then like, just keep doing you like, just stay consistent, stay focused on your people and grow through that rather than looking externally at all the other things because that'll, like, keep us spun out. That'll keep us focusing on like, Okay, I gotta do this. Now. I gotta do this now. And so I love that you had that realization, especially because we had a conversation prior to that where I thought we may be like what are you looking for? Right? Like, what are you looking to do? Because I see you guys doing everything that I'm like, Oh my gosh, I wish I did that. I wish I did that. So you guys are amazing. And I wonder if you can give us a little bit about today. So all this all these years of putting it in and there were also So in addition to what you said, I know books involved as well. And you just put in the heavy lifting for so long.
Kelly Starrett 23:06
I'm sorry, we stopped. You know, one of our old coaches used to say the grind is the glam. I mean, I mean, I just it doesn't stop you because we have become much more sophisticated. And you know, Juliet has probably the highest work tolerance in pain, work pain tolerance of anyone I've ever met. But what ends up happening is that there's never a place where like, we've made it we just have a growth mindset and we go to work every day and do the thing that we love and we're good at and it's gonna take a long time.
Juliet Starrett 23:34
And and I would like to add to that we are not immune from a little bit of that, like, Oh my God, we should be doing that. Yes, I should be doing Facebook Messenger marketing or whatever other 5000 random acts of marketing, random acts of marketing that you can think of, you know, we are I in particular, I'm not immune from that. I think if you are running a business today, it's impossible not to be at least a little bit influenced by all that.
Nicole Holland 23:59
For sure. And I think that my takeaway from what you've done and also what I've seen in others in terms of content marketing, and getting out there, it's like yes, there are a million different things. There's the messenger. There's the this there's the podcast guesting, which, of course, I am a huge fan of and I'm going to tooting the Horn of but but you we, I think sometimes forget, like, just go deeper. Just keep doing what's working. There's always going to be a new thing. And you guys have kept doing even though you see what else is going on. I'm sure you've gotten inspiration and been like, ooh, how can we add this to what's already working? So you just finished a rebrand from mobility WOD to the ready state which was a lot of fun. As a spectator to see. Fun. Oh my gosh, he took you can't say that Kelly because I saw the videos. So
Juliet Starrett 24:54
we did have a lot of fun making those videos I will say
Nicole Holland 24:57
so and it was a big job. So can you talk a little bit about that, before we wrap up is is really like what made you decide it's time for this big rebrand. And how did you eat the elephant? And what are you like? Now on the other side of it, any takeaways, any lessons, any best tips that you can share?
Kelly Starrett 25:24
I'll say first of all, that it was really two years in the making, we saw an opportunity to reach more people to expand our sort of our message that you know, this isn't just about athletes, it's about your mom's knee pain and your kid's feet. You know, sort of painting back we we had a minute to sort of reimagine our user experience and reimagine how we delivered content because we had 10 years of experience. We're very, very lucky. And also just add that we had a couple other friends go through these gigantic transitions and when we said to them over two years ago, hey, we have this idea. They were like okay, already. And then I basically turned to Julia and I was like, you got this good. And, and really I just I'll let Juliet's talk about the rest. But she is the architect and the brain behind this thing. And the reason it worked is because of Juliet.
Juliet Starrett 26:13
Well, and well, thank you. And it was it was there was a lot of people who worked really hard on it, not just me. But the, you know, I think we changed our name. I think Kelly alluded to a little bit, but because we felt like mobility WOD especially the WOD part of it was confusing. I can't tell you how many conversations I had where I'm like, Yes, I own a company called mobility WOD and people like wha wha de mobility and I would find myself spelling it out and saying w o d workout of the day. And we found that it just was really too much of a niche term and sort of associated with CrossFit. We obviously own CrossFit are fans of CrossFit. But the work we're doing really goes way beyond athletes, as Kelly said. I mean, you know, if you if your mom has knee pain, we have content that can help your mom even if she's never done anything athletic. So we just we've actually felt like our name was sort of lifted. hitting us. And I'm also probably deterring a certain number of people from coming in the door because they thought that's for athletes not for us. You know, we had a big team and it was a lot of work and Kelly's right it was two years in the making. Very complicated. Definitely did not go smoothly. You know, we had, we did not, we sort of thought maybe like another hundred people would subscribe when we launched and within like, the first three hours, something like 4000 people subscribed, and then our website broke. So it wasn't pretty. And you know, the, it's it's been really fun, though, to talk to other company founders since then all of them were like, Oh, my God, when I launched my website broken. I don't know if you saw the news, but Disney just relaunched their site and it broke and was actually down for 48 hours after they launched. So, you know, we certainly are not perfect and, you know, we we struggled to get it right at the beginning, but people have really received it well, and in fact, it's only three months that we In The Ready State and it feels like we've always been The Ready State.
Nicole Holland 28:03
Absolutely awesome. Sorry. I'm like there's a bit of a pause. Here I'm sitting here taking notes. This has been a blast. And I'm aware of the time and I would love to talk to you guys forever. But we do need to wrap up, I want to make sure that my listeners know first of all, where they can continue the conversation with you how they can continue the conversation with you all the things and of course any final words of wisdom that you would like to leave us with floor is yours.
Juliet Starrett 28:28
All right, well, I'll let Kelly do the words of wisdom but people can find us at TheReadyState.com we are also on all the socials @TheReadyState and what words of wisdom Do you have Kells,
Kelly Starrett 28:39
you know, as you start to untangle or or realize suddenly that you're going to be 100 years old and your knees hurt and you're 39 there is hope for you. One thing we say is that muscles and tissues are like obedient dogs. There's never a time where human beings don't stop healing, you're going to always always be able to heal always be able to improve the environment. And it's it's a lot less sophisticated than you think. No, we used to fly on those airplanes was Virgin America and the touchscreen said touch anywhere to begin. And really you can come into the conversation with your body anyway through walking yoga through polities, grab a bobble something out, it feels hurt. And just keep in mind that you've got your whole life to improve the system. It really is that easy.
Nicole Holland 29:18
Amazing. Thank you guys so much for being here.
And there you have it. Thanks again for tuning in. I do realize that there are about a million other things you could have been doing over the past half hour. And the fact that you chose to spend it listening to this podcast means the world to me, I would love to know what your biggest takeaway from today's episode was. So feel free to send it on social tagging me @TheNicoleHolland on Facebook or Instagram, or send me a message from my website FascinatingFounders.com. You'll also find show notes with the transcript from this and all other past and future podcast episodes on the website. that URL one More is FascinatingFounders.com thanks to my podcasting goldmine team for the production of today's episode, and a special shout out to Effy Ceruti for composing the intro and outro music for this season. If you're looking for custom composed music for your own podcast or any other aspect of strategy, design, or production for your existing or new podcast, the podcasting goldmine team can help give us a ring at 218-GET-SEEN or contact us through the website for a custom quote. And once again, if you are ready to explore effectively leveraging podcasts for business growth, visit PodcastingGoldmine.com and request a complimentary consultation to explore making podcasts work for you. Again, that URL is PodcastingGoldmine.com coming up on fascinating founders I'm excited to introduce you to more fascinating Men and women who've taken their inspired idea and against all odds have grown it into a multi-million or billion-dollar enterprise. Until next time, this is Nicole Holland, signing off.