Matt Wolfe is a father, a husband, and an online entrepreneur. He loves building online businesses, blogging, and, most importantly, he loves helping people build successful businesses and blogs. He loves these things so much that he created a business around teaching people how to blog, he created a podcast that helps guide people down the right paths in business, and he has created several blogs that share his entrepreneurial journey.
Joe Fier advises businesses on marketing strategy and sales conversion to increase revenues and create long-term selling assets. He has run a marketing and tech consulting company and full-scale content marketing agency. Joe is also a huge coffee lover and is so addicted to his daily “Cup o’ Joe” (no pun intended) that he once traveled with his espresso machine on a road trip to Chicago and back!
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Nicole Holland 0:00
Hello, hello, welcome back to the show. I'm Nicole Holland your hostess with the mostess. And today, I'm really excited to bring to you an interview that I recorded a little while back. As I mentioned last week, I've been in a space of waffling about this podcast for a while, a number of things happened when I had transferred some technical stuff to another provider. And honestly, I don't want to talk about it, just to say that it was a bit of a disaster, but that is over. We are risen from the ashes and I have decided, obviously, to revive the Nicole Holland show I love the Nicole Holland show i love you my listener and just great content has been had here already. And we've got a lot more to do. So I just decided you know, rather than starting fresh, starting knew I wanted to really serve my existing audience you. But in a newer way I mentioned last week a little bit about, it's going to be more of a flow more of a relaxed conversation. Not that it wasn't already. But for the show now, it's going to be less about a specific strategy or a specific outcome so much, we may still have episodes that are like that, that are teaching episodes where you can really learn a lot. But overall, I really want to just be in the magic of life more, and I'm enjoying my journey so much and I know so many other incredible folks who are enjoying their journeys as well. And I love spending time with them. I love hanging out I love masterminding with them. And it just seemed like it was time for me to do it with the recorder going. And so that's what we're doing now. So I hung out with my friends Matt and Joe a little while back For, I don't even know, it was meant to be an interview, but I didn't even wasn't even sure what was going on with it. And so what I decided to do in the moment and the heat of the moment, as we were speaking was like, hey, yeah, I'm going to do a new podcast right here right now. This is episode one. Well, obviously, it was not. It's Episode Two of the new and improved Nicole Holland show the revival in 2020. I was thinking even to change the name of the podcast, but honestly, I'm just kind of good with it. We'll see what we'll see what happens and where things go. Everything is modifiable. I tell my clients who are getting their podcasts going that you can always change things later on. You can always change the look of the show. You can change the name of the show all as well. But when you know what you're doing, who you're doing it for and why you're doing it. That is the Most important thing, so I'm doing this to share with you more joy and more value and more vision and more collaboration and more good stuff more good stuff. So I hope you love it in any case. Yeah, let's get going with Matt and Joe. They are the founders of evergreen profits. And they're the hosts of one of my favorite podcasts, the hustle and flow chart podcast and I was very fortunate to be a guest on their podcast late last year. You can check it out by searching on any podcast player for hustle and flow chart. My episode was number 217 and if you want to go directly to their website where the show is hosted, you can go to evergreen profits comm all together that's er g r e m NPFIT s.com. forward slash Nicole dash Holland and IC o le dash H O Ll, nd that is my name. And I was really excited to be on this podcast. And we talked about how to get yourself on any podcast no matter how big Matt and Joe are very big fans of Joe Rogan. And they want to be on his show. So we talked about it, why not?
Alright, so anyways, this is a really raw and real conversation that we had doing it live we broadcast to Facebook, I believe. Now it is here for your listening pleasure. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Matt and Joe. I am joined by my friends here and Matt wolf. And these guys are from the hustle and flow chart podcast which I'm so honored to have been a guest on. It's one of my favorite shows you guys are amazing. We've been chatting for the last however long and I'm just like, I want to record and I just still want to talk with you. And so I decided, I've already been thinking about starting this new podcast. And I was just telling them about it. And we were kind of just talking about it. And so guess what? I'm starting this new podcast. So this is Episode One of the new podcast.
Joe Fier 5:22
I don't even know we're gonna be episode one as great.
Nicole Holland 5:28
So and this is how I'm gonna do it. Right. So I mean, personally, I've been a podcaster since beginning of 2016. And I've had podcasts that are primarily interview based. I've done some solo shows. And essentially what I love is just having conversations with awesome people. And these are the things that I do when I'm not being recorded. And so I've been thinking about this for quite some time. What if I were just to have these non organized conversations with my brilliant friends, about business marketing, and whatever the hell is is going on in the world and turn that into the podcast. So here we are.
Joe Fier 6:17
It's super cool the chat today because I know you're doing a lot of I mean, we're all doing interesting things and an interesting time, right? At least at the time of this.
Nicole Holland 6:24
Now, you guys have been podcasting for how long should like 10 years.
Matt Wolfe 6:29
We started our first podcast in 2010. But we haven't been podcasting straight through for 10 years. We've had a few different podcasts and a few phases where we didn't have podcasts. The current show is about a little over three years now.
Nicole Holland 6:42
Okay. And when you started in 2010, like podcasting wasn't really a thing. And today it's like people they know they know the term podcast, they know they should have a podcast that's their hearing should have it. Everybody should have a podcast which I don't agree with. But they're they're coming out left, right and center. So talk to me about your kind of your, your take on the industry and and who you think should have a podcast and who shouldn't have a podcast and yeah, whatever you want.
Yeah. So when we started back in 2010, it was definitely a different world. Now, when we did it, iTunes did start to have podcasts. I think we were kind of like in the early end of that. And, you know, it was so easy to become like a top 10 podcast on iTunes Back then, I think we released you know, we released our first handful of episodes. And within days, we had like, 500 downloads on like, like one or two episodes, and we're like, wow, how are people even finding this? Now, not quite the same thing. Now. It's like you really got to pull people to your podcast and get it to just sort of kickstart
Unknown Speaker 7:56
Yeah, now it's definitely different times and you know, Partially so what's nice is with us, we've been doing digital marketing for about the same amount of time, maybe two years longer than podcasting. But throughout the years, we've, we've realized, oh, podcasting is just content in a different form. So why not apply all these digital marketing things that we've been experimenting with for the last, you know, 1215 years, whatever it is now off and on and just apply it to podcasting. And still, like, we just presented that at pod fest we gave like 20 was like a fire hose presentation. We've 26 growth hacks for your podcast, how you can get more listeners and people were just like, blown away. We're like, it's all like, it's not groundbreaking stuff. But it's interesting, because we're just like, mashing these two worlds together. And it's like, I mind blowing for people and they're like,
Oh, my God, really? Yeah. Well, you can't rely on iTunes. You can't rely on Spotify or any of these places to show our bring the best people like you got to do the work.
Nicole Holland 8:57
Yeah, for sure. And like I was just telling Before you know you asked about my old show, and right now it's just off iTunes. The recordings all done. It's I'm paying for hosting, but due to some technical issues, it just doesn't exist right now. And it will continue not to exist until I have the time bandwidth and interest to go through and tediously do a heck of a lot of work. And so I think that it's really important to, to understand what's possible with podcasts. And I'm curious, I give again, like we just hit record. So I'm putting you on the spot here. And you can totally say no, but I missed pod fast. However, I saw so many people posting about your session specifically. I'm wondering if that firehose presentation had a little takeaway, and if that might be something we can share with my audience.
Yeah, I'd have like 30 takeaway, so I don't even know where to start on that. And the answer to that question. Well, we can do you want us to talk about some of I mean, we're just happy to give the slides away too. It might even be easier. Yeah,
Nicole Holland 10:05
I think having getting the the presentation I don't know if you have any kind of like video or audio or anything that goes with the slides might be really valuable because, you know, we're sitting here recording on the 16th of March 2020. And right now, everybody's kind of going what the EFF is going on with Coronavirus. And one of the things that started our podcast conversation before we hit record was, somebody in my mastermind has decided she decided yesterday that she was ready to do a podcast and she has all these questions and you guys were saying some of the conversations you've had as well. You know, people are wanting to podcasts and you're feeling like they're, they're going to boom. And I feel like in an act of service, if you will, we can share some thoughts about how to start a podcast how to monetize a podcast and how to get it going. Now Because I think also, in addition to all these gurus and people saying over the last year and a half or so, everybody sort of podcast, I think the rules have changed, right? Whereas when I started in 2016, and maybe when you started hustling flowchart as well, we're kind of like, a normal format way that, you know, you kind of had to do things if you wanted to get leverage. Whereas now we can do these seasonal or finite, shows that there really are no rules. We're making it up as we go. And I think we're gonna see more of that as the effects of people from the corona virus outbreak that's worldwide. Start delving into the media. What are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I mean, I so right now, I think pretty much anybody who has a home based business is going to sort of Thrive during this time, but I think the people that are that are at home sort of looking for things to do people You know, self distancing and self quarantining and all that kind of stuff. They're looking to be educated and they're looking to be entertained. And podcasts are a great way to both educate and or entertain with our podcasts. We're trying to do both right. We're trying to be very entertaining and educating at the same time. But I think anybody who's really focused on how can I do something from home where I can educate, entertain, those are who are going to win right now. So yeah, I do think it's a good time to be getting into podcasting. I think it's equally a good time to be getting into building up YouTube videos or blogging or any of that kind of stuff. I think guesting or podcast
Guesting. I mean Podcast Guesting, I think is, in my opinion, really an add on to any one of those other things that I just said if you have a podcast go Podcast Guesting to grow your podcast, if you have a blog, a podcast guest if you have a YouTube channel, Podcast Guesting You know, I think Podcast Guesting is an amazing way to sort of pour gasoline on any fire that you're creating. And it's a great way to kneel like it If you're starting a show in tandem just do Podcast Guesting to start, like, even if you just have a business period, you're gonna benefit from that instead of not doing that, you know, it's more attention on podcasts, YouTube, all that stuff. There's opportunities all over the place where attention is at you just kind of watch the TV do Google searches Yeah, Google Trends searches and be like podcasting popularity. I'm having done this, but I'm assuming that the trends and YouTube and all that stuff are gonna be a lot higher now.
Yeah, I think I think you shouldn't start a podcast if you don't have something to say something to educate if you're not entertaining. I think there's a lot of podcasts out there that are just people who flip on record and randomly rant about their thoughts. There's nothing wrong with that. Just nobody's gonna listen to you calling the call out. No, I'm just kidding.
Nicole Holland 13:47
I mean, come on. I mean, perspective too, right. As you know, my focus is Podcast Guesting and really building your authority platform and brand holistically. I think For me personally, the people I serve are entrepreneurs and their mission based entrepreneurs. So if you have a thing that you teach or that you're passionate about and you want to build a business around it, Podcast Guesting goes hand in hand in that because you're going to be able to reach audiences that you wouldn't normally reach in fact, I was a guest on your podcast late last year. Muscle and flowchart had didn't know that. Yes, yes, you did know that. And, and one of your listeners, one of your subscribers, one of your fans, he wrote to me on LinkedIn from hearing my interview and we connected how to connection call. He invited me on to his podcast or I think he maybe he wanted to he didn't actually pull the trigger. But I said, Hey, would it make sense like, you know, I listened to his podcast. I really liked it. I liked how he got things out to people. I said, You know what, I'd be a fit. I'd love to propose myself as a guest. He goes Yes, of course. I wouldn't have contacted you If not if I didn't want you on my show and like, Okay, great. So I was on his show and that just went live, you know. So the power of Podcast Guesting is building new relationships with people who are the thinkers, the the doers, the people who you want to connect with and have association with is so incredible and go so far beyond the audio content that we create. And there's some thoughts around Yeah, because like right now in this time in place with, you know, you have all these different types of reactions, you know, people with the Coronavirus right now, like I literally just saw, like, Trump did a thing and now they're limiting people to groups of 10 people now is so like, that literally just happened as we've been on this call. So things are even taking out more, which means more fear for a lot of these folks, but think about the opportunity side of things too. So you gotta first like get your head straight, then figure out Alright, what The value I bring to this world, but then apply it to what modality. And then the other thing you mentioned referrals and your network and all that like, and you asked us earlier, how are we pivoting? Like it's 100% our network and and really honing in like it's narrowing our focus. And then it's also, you know, for us, it's leveraging our network to get interview opportunities to get folks on our I mean, we have like a backlog of 20 people that want to be on our shows, I'm like, well, we don't really need more of those right now. But it's amazing because that all came from our network, affiliate marketing. So I'd say like, really lean on your network, because that's not going to go away as long as you keep it alive and give value. And just imagine all the different opportunities that we all have. If you just like, post it on Facebook or talk to you and got some introductions. I mean, there's just yeah, and you know, guesting opportunities. I think it's like, perfect. And then like what Matt said about, if you're going to start a podcast, you better have something good to say. I would suggest have a solid intention behind the show like don't just start wanting to start rambling, but like, have a frickin end goal with that thing, be it you know a long term show we were talking about like our hustle and flow chart show is like a pillar show, I guess you want to call it like it is an hour long. We're going to talk all over the place on things it'll be around for as long as we are having fun with it. Three, three and a half years now, but you can do splinter off shows like our short show. They're just like 10 minute clips that are repurposed and you know, quick thoughts or you can even have like a mini like a condensed podcast around like a product of yours or an affiliate product that you promote or some topic and just be like ads 1012 episodes, it's like a chapter maybe that's all you ever release or maybe you end up releasing another one, you know, in the future, but it has like a intention behind it that's can leverage all the different networks out there like YouTube, SEO and all that. So yeah, it's an opportunity really.
Nicole Holland 17:58
And it's also a way you know, And we're looking at, we're looking at, okay, now people are going to be home, they may or may not still have a job, you know, I mean, all the all the businesses having to cut things, it's like it's insane. But you guys have used affiliate marketing as a primary source of income generation. And you can do that through your podcast. And you don't necessarily have to get sponsors right away like affiliate marketing is something you can start very quickly. And you know, you have to have an audience, but you can build the audience as you're getting paid to do it. And maybe it's only you know, a few dollars here, a few dollars there first, but you guys have Can you can you speak quickly? I know we're pressed for time because we were chatting a long time before we hit record. But can you speak about how a podcast even for somebody new who's never podcasted before as long as they have a point and a purpose? How they can monetize right from the start, potentially?
Unknown Speaker 18:55
Yeah, so one of the things that we did when we first started our podcast was we did what we called mock sponsorship. IPS, which was we basically said, Hey, this show is supported by. And then we sort of named a company in a URL where they can go and check out that product. But we were just affiliates of that product. They weren't actually sponsors. So we were careful not to say, we're sponsored by we were saying we were supported by right because the money from this affiliate income is supporting the show. So that was our mock sponsorship concept that we did kind of from day one with the podcast. I mean, maybe like episode four or something, we started doing that. So that that was one way, we kind of jumped into the affiliate marketing stuff. The other thing that we started to do was what we talked a lot about digital marketing and internet based businesses and things like that. And a lot of our guests have things to offer. So we started bringing on guests that we knew had products that we can be affiliates of, not because we just wanted the affiliate commission, we obviously brought on people that we wanted to talk to and that were interesting as well, but a lot of them had affiliate products, so we would always kind of spin it into an affiliate promotion, as well. That was another way that we were doing the affiliate promotions. And then finally a third way is Real simple on your actual shownotes website where people go to get any extra info or links or things like that, use affiliate links there put banners in the sidebar to your various affiliate offers. Real simple stuff like that is what kind of drove the sales in the beginning. And then over time, that stuff is still there. And it's just kind of scaled with the show
Unknown Speaker 20:19
some other ways that we just held a mastermind, a private mastermind at pod Fest, but it was our own people and all that stuff. And we're tossed around. There's so many people that have just lateral ways that they can if you get out of the box of the standard, I do sponsorship for this amount of money $25 CPM, it's like get away from that, at all costs, like you're not gonna make money, especially if you're starting from scratch. Start working deals with your network, start working deals as subscribers with companies out there who want to leverage podcasting. Like you can totally start a podcast for a company that if you just handle it for them, but make a list of companies don't just go to one but start at the top like go big, especially right now with this option. tunity don't go for the easy wins, jump to the top and go up top. And then just go down the list. I mean, like, right now especially you can leverage so much in a good way, obviously, but you're serving this, this company, this market, and guess what you're gonna have built in distribution, probably monetization because they'll probably pay for some of this stuff. You're gonna supply the system and the modality and the content. I would, I would suggest start start leveraging your network and start reaching out, build your value. And like what Matt said, you can do all sorts of different layered things, but don't stick to the box of, you know, sponsorship, or monetization of podcasts is probably not gonna work out.
Nicole Holland 21:40
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think with that, too, is one thing. If you're thinking oh, well, great ideas, but my network and what what? I think also just think about what do you love? What are you passionate about? It doesn't necessarily have to be anything to do with what you've been doing for work. It's oftentimes I know for me like sometimes If I get too focused on what my skills that I believe are, and what I have, you know, my k essays, I forget about the things that just light me up and bring me joy. And it's oftentimes the things that light you up and bring you joy that people want you to serve them with. It's not the K essays that you know the employer may be looking at, but it's the things that are just fun and easy for you that you don't even think to make money because you just do it naturally. And that's how I started. Yeah, that's how I started ITC is like, I was just connecting people because I enjoyed it because I thought oh my gosh, this person is amazing. This person is amazing. They need to know each other they need to share and and it was through that that people started asking if they could pay me like, No, no, I do this for free. And
yeah, you and sure as heck better better get some kind of reward from it, whatever that looks like. Yeah,
Nicole Holland 22:52
you guys, thank you so much. I know it's coming to the top of the hour before we click off where People go to get your, your presentation and anything you want to share with us as well as where can they listen to your podcasts and learn more about you?
Yeah, so we made a link over at hustle and flow chart comm slash Nicole will throw up the slides from our presentation at pod fest with our what was it Joe 26 growth hacks that you can use to grow a podcast. We'll also hook you guys up with our traffic book. So we've got a whole bunch of traffic tactics that we use to drive to whatever we're doing so we'll throw that book in it sells for Amazon Amazon right now, but we're just gonna throw that one in. And, you know, by going there, you'll you'll definitely find out about how to listen to our podcast hustle and flow chart.
Nicole Holland 23:43
Beautiful. So ninja. I love it. Hustle and flow chart.com forward slash Nicole. Yep. Okay, awesome. You guys. Thank you so much. It's always such a pleasure hanging out with you.
Thanks for having us.
Nicole Holland 23:56
Excellent. Excellent, excellent. I hope you enjoyed this. Interview as much as I did, and I head on over to the Nicole Holland comm for show notes and more. And stay tuned next week for the next episode of the Nicole Holland show. 2020 reboot, revival, whatever we're calling it, I'm not 100% sure, but I'm cool with that. I hope you are too and have a wonderful rest of your week. Until next time, be more of who you are.
Transcribed by Otter