While some people hack computers, my guest today hacks humans.
Susan Ibitz is a Human Behavior Hacker with over 28-years of experience applying behavior hacking to sales, communication, negotiation, and everyday life.
She delivers training and consults on Human Behavior, Micro-Expression, Body Language, Deception-Detection, Statement Analysis, Face Reading & Personality types, and has worked in a multitude of fields including Political Campaigns – Law Enforcement – Realtor Estate – Market Research – Insurance Fraud – Match Makers – and more.
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Nicole Holland 0:06
Hey, there entrepreneur. Welcome back to another fascinating episode of Fascinating Founders. I'm your host, Nicole Holland and I'm thrilled to be your guide as we dive in and uncover the stories that came before the success of some of the world's most fascinating founders. Hailing from a multitude of industries and socio-economic starts, you're going to learn what's made these fascinating men and women realize their dreams from an inspired idea to millions in revenue, disrupting, innovating and impacting humanity for the better. Today's episode is brought to you in part by Podcasting Goldmine. Are you reaching and converting your ideal buyers through podcasts yet? You'd better believe that your competition is the podcast industry is exploding right now with billions of dollars being poured into it and well over 1 million active podcasts in the directories in just the past 90 days alone. Hundreds of thousands of new podcasts have been added and the industry will continue to grow. Whether or not you're a part of it your market my friend is listening to podcasts. And I would love to personally help you design a strategic podcast marketing plan to help your company scale and reach your business growth goals through podcasts from getting you featured as the expert guest on premium podcasts that your ideal buyers are already listening to, to designing and launching a profitable podcast for your company to show sponsorship and advertising. Podcasting for business growth is totally my jam. If you're ready to take a serious look at how you can effectively leverage podcasts for business growth, visit PodcastingGoldmine.com and request a complimentary consultation for us to explore how we can make podcasts work for you. Again, that URL is PodcastingGoldmine.com. Now you never know what we're going to get into on an episode of Fascinating Founders. So get your notebook ready, cozy up with a Great Cup of Joe. And let's dive into another inspiring journey with today's guest.
Well, some people hack computers. My guest today hacks humans. Susan Ebates is a human behavior hacker with over 28 years of experience applying behavior hacking to sales, communication, negotiation, and everyday life. She delivers training and consults on human behavior, micro expression, body language, deceptive detection, statement analysis, face reading, and personality types and has worked in a multitude of fields including political campaigns, law enforcement, real real estate, market research, insurance fraud, matchmakers and more. And honestly, I, I can't even express how excited I am to introduce you to her and to dig into her journey. It's fascinating and although we'll only get a little snip in today's episode I really hope that you take so much away from this and that you explore what Susan does more after the interview. So Susan, thank you so much for joining me today.
Susan Ibitz 1:14
Thank you Nicole for having me. So it's a pleasure.
Nicole Holland 1:17
Absolutely. So in addition to being self proclaimed behavior hacker, you have also been called a human polygraph I believe and
Susan Ibitz 1:29
oh my god this has been brings so much controversy because people just will polygraph is not legal on the court. The mic is a joke. It's not that polygraph is a test a stress detector just people is giving me names because apparently I'm doing what I do. So they take it easy yet yeah, as I think is funny to be called the human polygraph. But that's what I do, too. Yeah. Detection a lot.
Nicole Holland 1:59
I love it. And Something just about my journey is and I don't talk about this very often. And it's not something I ever really pursued. But it was just in my mind. I always thought it would be fascinating to do FBI or counterintelligence and things like this. And at an early age, I actually did look into doing that. And then I didn't have the attention span or for whatever reason, I didn't have the passion, something that never stopped fascinating me. And, you know, I did work in law enforcement for a short time in my journey. And when I when I started hearing you talk on other podcasts and on your own on your own things. I was just like, so cool. So let's, let's talk about this stuff. Can you share with us from the early days when you were very young, kind of where you wanted to go in your life, what you saw for your future.
Susan Ibitz 2:57
I always wanted to be the new Robert Ressler. He was the actually the show Netflix, Manhunt, and based on him is the man who interviewed every serial killer in the world. He had the chance to just happen and a time there he interviewed Manson the guy who tried to kill Reagan and he interviewed everyone, Ted Bundy, all of them and he created a via via unit on the FBI. And I grow on that environment in my house, my house. My dad was a diplomat and an artist. So we was really unconventional and everything. And I always says, I become who I am because my my parents teach me quality time, no quantity time. So my quality time was when my dad watching Columbo and the Godfather and reading niche at the age of six years old. So probably if I was raised in the United States human service will take some sort of service it wouldn't take me away but thank God it's not I got damaged but not so much. But I always dream to be a profiler. I want to read people's mind. And I didn't have a second plan. I didn't like I was so passionate about like, I that's what I want to be. I want to be the badass women on the FBI. I want to be remembered for being the best profiler and my dreams get crushed when I found out and I'm highly dyslexic and the accreditation that I would need to end today FBI because the FBI on 50 years ago was different. And accreditation today is not going to happen. And I was like, now what? I didn't have a second plan. And that's one of the things and I and I say when I teach them the university we do a keynote speaking with kids who are looking to what to do with their life and like, always have a second plan because the amount of time and effort and emotional investment and how many derail because when you're 18 and your dreams are crushed to your brain like every other teenager was devastating. It was really devastating to my dad says, okay, you man up, you stop crying and wasting your time. Let's talk. It's another way to do it. It's always another way to do. He was a diplomat without going to the university. Because he was an artist and he was promoting culture. He was appointed as a diplomat says if I did it without studies, why you not. So I started my short journey going around the wall, picking and knowing everyone who knows about these taking jobs, in places that I went to study and went to Europe, Latin America, Mexico, United State, until finally land here, but I went to Manchester to study with Eggman International. And I study hostage negotiator negotiation, I study interrogation with people from the military. So I didn't have the chance to be in but have the chance to study with and that's what so it's about the journey that you decide to do, but I always think Never had only one plan because you never know how life is going to turn like What happened now? Yeah, and most people doesn't have a plan.
Nicole Holland 6:09
For sure. So, can we dig into this a little bit? I'd love to talk about you know, when your father said to you, hey, man up or you know, you got to find a way to get to Italy? Is that what it was? or?
Susan Ibitz 6:21
Yeah, you have so many ways to go to Italy you some people fly some people take the train and look like you're gonna be swimming. So learn to float so you don't drowned. And like, at the beginning, I didn't understand the knowledge like that I know how to swim. And he slapped me on the on the back of the neck leg was funny, but never, he never actually slapped in like, hey, getting your head is an analogy, meaning that you're going to get where you want to get it just going to take longer.
Nicole Holland 6:48
Yeah, and this is something I think, in in having interviewed so many, you know, hundreds of founders, I find that it's something that we tend to either have Have or not have an awareness of. And I think for some people, it's just innate. And then some people, they're introduced to it and they go, Okay, I don't understand. But let me follow this path, and then they get it. And so that's one of the things, you know, for listeners who are wanting to stand on the shoulders of giants and to say, Okay, this is what I want, I want to build an enterprise. I want to have a legacy. I want to do something that impacts the world in a really powerful way. And how do I learn from the people who are doing things and inspiring me about what they've done? And so I think this is a key point here, that you are able to recognize what your dream was, and find other ways when you were met with the resistance that hey, it's not gonna happen this way. You didn't allow it with the push of your father. Maybe would have been the same without the push of your father? Who knows. But you didn't allow that to then define who you are going to be in the future. So when you had this teaching from your Dad, can you talk about how you recognize, hey, I can go and learn under this person, I'm gonna find the best people in the world doing what I want to do. And I'm going to get their attention and I'm going to learn under them. Can you talk a little bit about what that transition was like?
Susan Ibitz 8:31
I pivot. That's what I did. And I always I, and I think it has to do with the concept of quality, not quantity. And it's funny because everybody getting praise like whoa, how many certification you have not enough. I'm doing three more this year and next year, I'm going to start learning Arabic. So wait for it My grandmother believe until 100 I'm only 48 so I have 50 more to 52 more years to piss people off. And learning something new I never gonna retire. But I think was pivoting and instead to and it's something that I fought a lot when I start doing a column and like who is the quality of the people who's mentoring you? And what is the quality of people you learn from? Now everybody call themself a coach. Everybody knows about human behavior, face reading and microexpression when four months ago you talked to them and they didn't have any idea what they're talking about. So it has to do with the quality of the person who's teaching you who is mentoring you and who is putting ideas and knowledge in your teams in your company. Because can be really, really dangerous myth is like given to a veteran veterinarian make brain surgery in your home is the same. Isn't the doctor feel that an animal the brain is not the same? So I fought really hard to look who were their best. Don't I say? The only person that I couldn't study he died in 2011. And I wasn't mature enough at that point to approach him. He was retired. I tried to get a hold of him. They told me like, Nah, he's not going to take it. But all the other ones. I've been taught by people who already were retire, and I stock people, I always say it is Doug Lena Cisco for two years and at one point says, Okay, we have two options. I call the police on you. I start training you so you shut up because I was sending an email every 15 days. And today, I have six personal coaches. They were mentoring me on my job on business and marketing mindset, how to be a better manager for many years. I was a solo person because when I was doing political campaign, you need to be a wolf solo wolf. You don't go in a pack. You need to be under the radar. Nobody need to know about you that the reason they hire you yourself. I have an accident, I under the wheelchair, I need to learn to walk again and take a four years leap in my career. And when I come back and say like, I do miss politics that I want to do something else, and that's when like, oops, I'm going to need to be a boss, I need to hire a team. How would you do that? And in the beginning, I was treating the people more like a friend and co worker, not a boss. So I made a lot of mistakes on the process of hiring. So in one point says, I keep putting money by not seeing results. I'm working on the weekends, and the people who should be working is having parties. So I start getting introduced, I asked for help. Most people is afraid to ask for help. I'm still after 28 years old career, I sometimes talk to some of my teachers, then I have the luxury to call them friends. We even go on vacations together with some of them. And we work together in some project and like, I'm thinking I'm out of pace on this case, or I cannot get through these person. Can you help me And I part of groups that we met every other week with people that I study and the teacher they study and we do soom meetings. We have been doing it for years before this become daily. And they still said, Susan, you can do better. No, it's not you're missing the people is not the way you need to put attention. That wrinkle doesn't mean that what is men? Come on, you know that. And the same way I do that with another I mentoring people only on Sundays. Why? Because I was trained by my first mentee was my mentor was Israeli. And he says, you want to you need to win it. Show me you're worthy of my time in my training. Instead, we're going to we're going to be training Sundays at 4 pm. And like, Why? Because if you really want to become good, you're going to sacrifice your Sunday. And he was right. So I'm doing the same. Some people say some kind of harsh as a trainer, or as a mentor, but believe me, you're going to get good at what you do, but it's still needs to ask for help. And I have an amazing person who is my sales trainer. He explained to me You are the best iceberg hiding on the world. What do you mean? You're really good, but nobody now knows about it. What is the word? To know no one knows what you do. People need to know what you do. So you get work and like, so I need to put my face like Yeah, get out there. Talk about what you do. Stop having imposter syndrome because you have an accent. Because you're dyslexic. Because you're Jewish because you're a woman because you weren't born in Latin America. Oh my god. If you start piling in everything that you think you're not good enough, you're never going to be good enough. And you are other people is saying that you're good stop with impostor syndrome go there. And another coach and business wise and like, okay, when I hired people what I need to ask, I'm a profiler. I know what to profile people that know how to hire an employee. How do I train them? How I can be the boss without torturing people. I have a Hi, I type A personality and I scare some of the people that I work with. And I need to talk like, you don't need to be afraid of me because it's paralyzing you. So I went back to my mentor and like, what I'm doing wrong is this. You're so used to work in politicians with police with hostage negotiators that you have this personality, where you to direct people is more sensitive, is not their job to adapt to you, you need to adapt to them. And that's like my shift change. And I start training people to do the same. When I talk to the managers, this, their their job is not to figure out you, you need to figure out them. And that's what I do that. And, like in my team, I have people who have been five years, three years, nobody has quit since I did the mind shift. But why? Because I asked for help. I recognized that I don't have all the answers. I recognize the main mistakes, and every time that I have a meeting or have a problem with one of the people in the team I Call them after then says, What could I have done better? I asked my right hand the CEO of the Latin American office, but she's always on the calls when we have provinces held up. What do you think I couldn't have done better? Do you think the way I communicate the way I express the problem? The solution I give was good. It's something that I need to learn. And she always laughs at me like why are you asking me You're my boss like, but I trust you to tell me how I can become better. So the day you think you know everything, and you don't need to ask for help. you're committing career suicide.
Nicole Holland 15:33
Amazing. And I would love it if you can kind of go into briefly what is it that you're looking for when you ask those questions? And the reason to preface why I'm asking this is what I have found is oftentimes people ask things, they ask for help, or they they ask for feedback without understanding the reason they're asking or the goal of what they want. And I think this is something That's so key that is missed by most people. Because when we say, what could I have done better? What could have, a lot of times people are filtering that, that data and that information, those subjective opinions in a way that doesn't necessarily serve them to move forward. And so if you can go into how this has been powerful for you and why I would really love to hear about that.
Susan Ibitz 16:27
Two things. I'm going to say that for most people, look for people who are only going to tell you, you're amazing. No, don't ask your mom. Don't ask your dad. Don't ask your partner, your best friend. Nope. One of the worst advice to take me to the right path in my life was faking until you make it and I remember telling that person in one point inches as a main mentor, and I found out like, this dude doesn't have any idea how this test is done, and says what I'm faking it and he was like, what you Like, I need to know what I fake in order to do it. If I want to make a cake, I need to know the ingredients I want to make a barbecue is a different approach. So what I'm faking it, and he's like, well, you're going to figure out like, No, you don't have time to figure it out. So that's when I choose another mentor. And that what he says, first of all, the five people in your personal life and your business life near to you that you talk more you talk at least once a week are the people who define you. So need to be people who know more than you know. They need to be feisty. They need to be disruptors. They need to criticize you and give you feedback, and you need to shut up and take it. And if you don't agree, get mad with yourself, know with your mentor. You can ask why their perception. You can define your precision, but you're going to shut up and take it and when you've analyzed what they tell you, you'll go back and ask for more. Don't get mad, then do not ask for people whose ongoing To tell you the error you do everything right. So mentoring the people you have in your life, if you're getting stuck on life, start looking for the people around you. And you're going to find either all of them are stuck. So you start feeling comfortable being stuck because you justify things. Everybody's crazy. You're crazy. You're okay. Everybody is is fat, or everybody is using glasses, so you're comfortable. How you hide an elephant between elephant. I want to be a tiger and a jungle who I have all the animals I want to be on the zoo. I always call in my little zoo team. Why? Because we're so different. I start hiring people who is so opposite than I am. And one thing I love is every time that we start a meeting that is funny, because we're all women working from home, all around the world. Most of them and stay at home stay at home mom, who never give them the options because they have kids and their embrace there will become the amazing people that everybody was like, Oh, your wife, and your nobody. And now their core of the company. And our meetings are Thursday night with a glass of wine. And we have four hours brainstorm. And the first thing is like, okay, who have ideas who are against ideas and I have, if you tell me, everybody, Tom is okay, we cancel the meeting. And the next one is going to be two o'clock in the morning. So everybody finds ideas, bring ideas, and it's disrupted. And for people who just come new to the company is like, Oh my god, this is a bag of cats. Are you crazy? But after three or four weeks, I'm like, I love it. Because I one of the things that I proud of myself, I would say from all the things in Dallas and Boston, I'm horrible boss, actually hire somebody to be my boss two weeks ago. I love it is her problem to talk to people. She's my boss. What I need to do Mary what I need to do, like, you know, like, No, tell me what I need to do this week. I love it. It's the first time I have a boss. To bring ideas, yes, allow people to flourish. I push people to be the best. And not in the by, by the way, when asked in my job interviews and like, okay, your paper look good. First of all, I want to see your face because I can read you. Second of all, what do you want to be and nobody gives you the chance to be. And people is like, it's not supposed to be a job. Yeah. But I want to know what you want. that the reason a person that I hired three years ago, she never ever even knew what this is about. And after a year, she says, I want to start training us at profiler like are you sure like yeah, I'm ready. And I asked her I make her asked me more than one time until one point says, I want it to be ni going to be a profiler says okay, you're ready. Now she's the CEO, my business partner, and the CIF training from Latin America because for two years she trained beside the work in the army. Did you work raising two kids under age of two years old, and now she's amazing. She went, I have a doubt about something. I talked to her. And she was studying Hotel Management. And she is dyslexic too. And it was still like, well, you're married, you have kids, good for you. And now you have a husband who is going to take care of you. And now she's the alpha on the family. She is the one who can profile everyone and she's amazing. Why? Because I asked her during the interview, what do you want? And she says, I always wanted to do something special. I have this second brain Valley cabin kind of happening. My gods. And I have this sense in the night can see or no and people lying to me, but I don't understand what it is. This is why you want to be I want to show my daughter's because she has two daughters. Then you can do it. You can be everything. And today she becomes that person if I wouldn't ask that on the job interview. Wouldn't have such an amazing partner working. And today's like, I have so much fun working with her. And she's the person that I call her and says, Well, what I can do better. And she's one of my biggest critics and says, Susan, you were completely off in that interview and that training, you could have done better. What is wrong with you? And like, yeah, you're right.
Nicole Holland 22:22
Susan, you are amazing. And I'm just looking at the clock. And we've got a wrap up. And so with that, I want to make sure that you share your final words of wisdom, a way for people to connect with you. But I also want to say that you've got to come back. I'm going to have you on the Nicole Holland show so we can dig more into this and continue the conversation. Because it's, you're amazing and your story's amazing and who you are and how you be is inspiring and I cannot wait to dive in further. So for now, for our listeners, Who want to follow up and connect with you and get more value from you? Where do you want them to go? What do you want them to do?
Susan Ibitz 23:07
Definitely the next one. We need to talk about earnings and having the cats on the listen. Let the cat running free wisdom. I not I never say wins don't because I don't think I've done everything yet. And I think would be appropriate because I have so much to learn. And I learned from the guy who delivered my boxes from the guy on the line on the on the supermarket that is my wins done. Everybody's an expert in something that you are not. So listen to people even though you think snow has nothing to do the best antidote I had it from people that I didn't know where there are I asked questions 80% 20 talking two years and a mouth asked questions. I get asked 409 questions and dates. We lost that. That's my wins down to you. Ask questions ever Everybody knows something more than you know, that's the way you grow learning. Secondly, if people want to connect with you, they can go to HumanBehaviorLab.com. That is our consulting company and our E learning platform that is only specialized in human behavior, you're not gonna find anything else is human behavior hacker school. And the reason that I was born six months ago is because I couldn't divide myself anymore. So I couldn't be in China and in India training at the same time. So like, I started putting, and I decided, like, I don't want to be myself giving classes. I want to create a community of people who train and teach human behavior. That's how I found out if it's not Google me, I reply to all my messages and LinkedIn on Facebook. That's how we connect.
Nicole Holland 24:50
It is indeed, thank you so much for your time today.
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