Gay Hendricks, Ph.D., has been a leader in the fields of relationship transformation and bodymind therapies for more than 45 years. After earning his Ph.D. in counseling psychology from Stanford, Gay served as professor of Counseling Psychology at the University of Colorado for 21 years. He has written more than 40 books, including bestsellers such as Five Wishes, The Big Leap and Conscious Loving (co-authored with his co-author and mate for more than 35 years, Dr. Kathlyn Hendricks), both used as a primary text in universities around the world. In 2003, Gay co-founded The Spiritual Cinema Circle,which distributes inspirational movies and conscious entertainment to subscribers in 70+ countries.
Gay has offered seminars worldwide and appeared on more than 500 radio and television shows, including OPRAH, CNN, CNBC, 48 HOURS and others. In addition to his work with The Hendricks Institute, Gay is currently continuing his new mystery series that began with The First Rule Of Ten.
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Connect With Gay Hendricks
Get your copy of The Final Adventure of Errol Hyde: The Case of Ludwig Wittgenstein's Secret Notebook to find out if it really IS Errol's final adventure!
If you enjoyed this episode, you might also enjoy Gay's previous appearance on The Nicole Holland show where we discussed How to Eliminate Negative Thinking & Boost Your Creative Energy.
Nicole Holland 0:00
Hello, hello, welcome back to the show Nicole Holland here. Wow, it has been a while. Thanks so much for being with me today. Thanks so much for tuning in to the Nicole Holland show. We've been on a pause. It was an unexpected pause and it was a long longer pause. Definitely not expected. However, during this big pause so many different things have happened, including fascinating founders, my new podcast or new ish podcast just about to start Season Two at time of recording of this episode. And that is a podcast where I interview fascinating founders about how they took something an idea, a concept, a thought from zero, just an idea, all the way to mid market. These people who are guests on that podcast, fascinating people as humans and they are doing such great things in the world. I'd love for you to tune in. Check that out at http://fascinatingfounders.com and here we are again on the Nicole Holland show. This is something I've been thinking about revising for a while. So you're going to find that the style is a little more fluid than it had been in the past and I personally have had a journey over the last year or so, of really stepping more into doing life doing business on my terms. And since we last talked, I have sold my house I have gotten rid of really everything I owned for the most part and started traveling with my cats in a van. So I got this old van and I worked on making it sort of a camper to travel around and stay in different Airbnb stay in different spots for an extended period of time. So not a long time, but a little bit have time to spend in different places have experiences with different people, different landscapes. And it just lights me up so much. Of course COVID squashed A lot of it. But I am hanging out in Florida right now I've been in quarantine and locked down down here and I'm really enjoying it. I've loved the neighborhood that I'm in getting to know the neighbors and feeling very comfortable. So I still have plans to travel, got some ideas for out west and in Texas and all over the place who knows where I'll go. I'm very open to the journey. So that's what's new on my end. What about you? How are things going? I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to know how are you dealing with COVID How has it affected your life positively. There's a lot of people out there complaining and honestly, you know, there's always something we could complain about, but the more we complain The more we're focusing on what we don't want, and it takes us away from what we do want. In fact, my guest for this comeback show is none other than gay Hendricks. He's such an amazing human being. I love him as so, so, so much. We recorded this episode a while back actually at the end of 2019 when he released some fiction that you'll get to learn about this episode. However, right now, time of recording, he recently just released another nonfiction book called conscious luck. I highly, highly recommend it if you are at all interested in being more lucky in life having more of what you want in life. I've loved gay for years and love all of his work. But I have to say, this book is such a fun, powerful culmination of a lot of what Gay has been teaching and implementing for many, many years. So highly, highly recommend it, especially at this time, you know, it really is a great mindset adjuster about how to really focus on getting more of what you want. And despite the external circumstances, we create our own reality, regardless of what's going on around us. And so it's got some great tips for that. So with that, I would love to hear from you. What are you doing now? That is feeling amazing. And what have you either learned or experienced during this COVID pandemic that has actually helped in your life in your business in some way to get more of what you want to be more of who you are. I want to hear about it. Visit interviewsthatconvert.com/chat to send me a message. It'll take you right to my Facebook Messenger. My personal Facebook Messenger so this isn't the the page this is actually me, direct messaged me. I would love to hear from you. I'd love to hear what's going on in your life and what's good, send me a message, video, audio, text, whatever, go to interviews that convert.com forward slash chat. It'll take you right to my personal Facebook Messenger. So with that, if you aren't already subscribed to the podcast, make sure that you do that now because we've got some incredible incredible guests lined up. And for now, it is my absolute pleasure to introduce you to one of my mentors and one of the most incredible people on this planet as far as I'm concerned. Mr. Gay Hendricks gay has been a leader in the fields of relationship transformation and body mind therapies for more than 45 years after earning his PhD in counseling psychology from Stanford, gay served as a perfect Pastor of counseling psychology at the University of Colorado for 21 years. He's written more than 40 books including bestsellers such as Five Wishes, the big leap and conscious loving. In 2003, gay co founded the spiritual cinema circle which distributes inspirational movies and conscious entertainment to subscribers. In over 70 countries. Gay is offered seminars worldwide and appeared on more than 500 radio and television shows including Oprah, CNN, CNBC, 48 hours and others. Without further ado, I am so honored and excited to bring you gay Hendricks gay Hendricks It is so exciting to have you back on the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Gay Hendricks 6:46
Thank you very much. I'm really happy to be here and really happy and ready to talk about this particular subject today.
Nicole Holland 6:53
To kick it off, you and your wife Katie has been teaching millions of people all over the world about conscious living and conscious love. For nearly 40 years, together and individually in your own rights, you've dominated the self help bookshelf. In addition to building your institute serving unbelievable clients and speaking all around the globe, many of your longtime students, followers and fans may be surprised to learn that you are also a prolific mystery writer with two fascinating series under your belt so far, the latest release we'll be talking about today. Before we get into the final adventure of Sir arrow, hide. Can you talk a bit about how and why you decided to pursue mystery writing seven years ago? And what's kept you going nine novels in a row, right?
Gay Hendricks 7:44
Well, I loved when I was a kid. I fell in love with Sherlock Holmes. And I think I was about 12 years old when I read my first Sherlock Holmes story, and I just thought he was the coolest guy the way he went around solving problems. problems and, you know, with thought he didn't have to shoot his way out of situations. And I'll tell you a funny story along about that same time. I was at a lumber company getting some lumber with my granddad. And we were in the lobby, where he was paying for it and everything. And up on the wall was a picture of this cool looking white haired gentleman with kind of bushy, white hair.
And I said to my granddad, is that the store's owner and my granddad looked it looked at the picture and said, Oh, no, that's Albert Einstein. And I don't know why a lumber company in Leesburg, Florida had Albert Einstein who all but he was very famous at the time because he had just maybe won a Nobel Prize or something. But I asked my granddad, well, what's he do? Why is this picture on the wall? Am I Ed said, Oh, he's he's really a big thinker. And my granddad I think was trying to find some way to explain it, you know, in terms of I could understand. And I remember saying to my granddad, you mean you can get paid for thinking and, and my granddad got a big chuckle out of that seat because I grew up in an area which was dominated by watermelon growing, orange growing, my family had orange groves that were harvested every year. And so it was an agricultural area. And so I think as a kid growing up, it hadn't dawned on me that you could do anything else that didn't involve watermelons or oranges or all the kinds of things that were going on around me. So that was just a big refreshing moment in my life. Wow. That's the kind of job I could get into if somebody could pay me for thinking. Anyway, wrong about that time I discovered Sherlock Holmes who is putting his thinking to a very practical use. He was solving problems. Rather than solving mysteries and saving people's lives, so that's when I started thinking about it. And for some reason, it never occurred to me that I wanted to be a private detective. It was just that I wanted to write about a private detective. And so I filed that thought away, I think for about 50 years. And then, you know, a couple of years or 7, 8, 9 years ago now, I started hatching my first mystery novel.
Nicole Holland 10:27
amazing. And so why the pivot? I mean, you had already been building for so long this empire which you love, which you know, you've taught countless people to change their life with their thoughts. And then in your 60s, you decided, now I'm going to write some fiction.
Gay Hendricks 10:45
I have kind of one foot in mystery novels and one foot in nonfiction like I have a big new book coming out in the spring, a nonfiction book that I've been working on for a long time. It's called conscious Luck and it's all about it's eight things you can do to increase your chances of having good luck in your life. And so that that'll be big thing for me to be focusing on next spring.
But mystery writing to me is kind of like having dessert every day as a creative person you know cuz when I sit in this chair over here and start working on sir arrow in the morning, it's kind of like dropping into a whole new world, a whole different world. And to me the best kind of novels or mysteries or whatever are ones that create some new world that you inhabit. And so that's what I'm trying to do with sir Errol is create this whole new world you know, of 100 years ago, where people spoke differently and they had different senses of humor and a different food I there's a lot of food and sir arrow books. In fact, one of the funny reviews I read somewhere on Amazon or someplace, it says I love these books, but does he have to go on to So much about food. But the funny thing is most of my fans say I love the sections on food and so I've tried to put in a nice food scene every 20 pages or so.
Nicole Holland 12:12
And you paint the picture so vividly that it's almost like you know you're there in the room with your characters can hear the sounds of the glasses and it just draws you in like immediately and I guess that's a psychologist in here as well as the creative that knows how to do that. And your hero is British, which I found interesting and your last hero in the in the other series was from another country as well.
Gay Hendricks 12:47
He's a Tibetan Buddhist. My other series hero is Tenzin Norbu and he's, he's been there through about half a dozen books so far. And he's a well he was born in India. I have a Tibetan father and an American mother. So he's a kind of a cross cultural person. And he does his work in LA. He came to LA, on a, on a kind of a fellowship thing when he was a teenager, to teach meditation to LA young people. And as part of a program, the Dalai Lama set up. And then he became a one summer got a job in the police department and kind of fell in love with it and became a policeman and then a private detective.
Nicole Holland 13:33
So why are you choosing to go outside of what you've personally experienced in your life and you you create these characters that are so rich in other cultures? I'm really interested in that.
Gay Hendricks 13:51
Well, that's a great question. I don't think anybody's asked me that before so many blessings to you for asking me a new question. Here's the thing. I, I've always loved learning about brand new things. I see you have a feline person too. We have two British short hairs too. They're not joining me on the interview today because I have my door closed. But sometimes they'll walk right in front of me while I'm on the air. Yeah. So here's something interesting. When I was a kid, I was about 15, I think. And I was kind of feeling desperate about what I wanted to do with my life. Because, you know, there was nothing around that area that I really wanted to do out in the swamp lands of Central Florida. And I was in the library one day and I saw this book, it was the autobiography of benvenuto Cellini, and he was one of the first what they would call Renaissance men. And he was a poet and a musician, and a writer. You know, he's the mayor or something like that. He was a politician, and he was part of this and that and cultural enterprises. So he didn't do just one thing and I remember Wow, that's me. You know, I don't want to do just one thing. And so I got really fascinated first by psychology, just trying to understand myself first of all. And so that's why I went and got my masters and my doctorate in counseling psychology because I wanted to know what it was like to work with people. And so that was really useful to me in my writing career too, because like all my nonfiction books, I've never had to go outside and do extra research because I had the research right there in front of me. And so it was really fantastic from that perspective. And also, once once our books like, I believe it was about almost 30 years ago now when we were first on Oprah with conscious loving. And before then we'd been on little local TV shows and things like that, but we had no idea what was about to happen, you know, when suddenly 10 million people saw us and so, you know, the book kind of went wild there. just loving it has basically been a best seller ever since Praise the Lord. And so it's we kind of went from zero to 60. And things didn't slow down for about the next 20 years. So I got to visit. I can't remember the exact number of countries now. But it's 30 some countries that I've been to giving lectures and things like that. So I got to do lots of cross cultural kinds of things. And it always fascinates me to go into a new culture and see what I can learn about it. My wife and I, for our anniversary last year, gave herself a present of going to Thailand and spending some time in Thailand and then taking the Orient Express Train down to Singapore through the backwoods of Malaysia and all of that, and, you know, every time we get a chance, we'd get out in the village and roam around and just talk to people and everything. So that's always fascinated me, you know, people from different cultures and so I think that's, that's why I write about that. It's just always been a personal interest to me.
Nicole Holland 17:00
I love it. So tell me more. Tell me more about what what you're excited about, about the book about the launch what we should know. I mean, you always have such great energy, but even just sitting with you in this space and and you're exuding this enthusiasm about the book, and I would love for her to open it up to you. What did I not ask you?
Gay Hendricks 17:22
Okay, good. Well, one thing too, it occurs to me. Interestingly enough, my wife Katie is often another part of the building, doing another interview with somebody else. And I want to shout out to her because she's been my mate for 40 years now. And we've done all of our work together. And she and I, a couple of years ago, spent a year working with people on midlife relationships, like after 40 between 40 and 85 was the range that we worked with. And we worked with a number of couples in that area. And we found that once you get to a certain age in life, especially after you're 40 Every moment is a choice between creativity and stagnation. And so just knowing that is really useful, and it changed my life in a way because I started focusing more and more and more on finding out, okay, what would make me feel creatively juiced up right now? And that's why I got into mystery novels too is both series characters came to me as a snippet of dialogue. One night, I couldn't sleep. And I woke up about three o'clock in the morning. This goes back to before I wrote the first tensing Norbu book. And so I was reading a mystery novel, and it was by the side of my bed, but I didn't want to turn on my light, because Katie was sleeping. And so I close my eyes and I said, Okay, I'm going to make up my own mystery novel. And then I saw this little snippet of a scene and heard a little snippet of dialogue. And I thought, wow, who would say such a thing? I had this image of a part Asian man standing on the bluffs in Pacific Palisades, looking out over the Pacific back toward Japan and Hawaii and Asia. And, and there was some little dialogue I heard him say, and I can't remember what it was right now. But it let me know that this was a person who was in a new culture, who was learning about a new culture and who, but still had his roots in his origins as being born in a monastery. And the more I sat there with him, the more I learned about him, the more I thought, Okay, this is a wonderful character. He sounds a lot like me. You know, he's 35 and a good looking Asian, but he sounds a lot like me, and he has a lot of my attitudes, surprisingly enough. And so I just started asking him, what are you doing? And he said, Well, I'm standing on the bluffs here. Looking back towards You're wondering if I'm an Asian or am I a California, and I thought, wow, that's an interesting problem to deal with in yourself. I've only been to California now for 25 years, I was briefly one back when I got my doctorate at Stanford, from 1970 to 1974. But then I went away to Colorado for 21 years. And then we came back out here to California in 1995. My wife's parents were getting up in years, and they lived in Santa Barbara, and we wanted to be closer so we could look after them. And so we lived over in Santa Barbara, until the end of their lives, seven or eight years later, and then we moved over here to Ohio. And where we found our dream house and have been here happily ever since. It's a little mountain valley, a few people are not familiar with it and we are close enough to LA so that we can get down there for plays and things like that museums but not so close that we have to be stuck in traffic all the time.
Nicole Holland 21:00
Did you kind of have that same sort of message? Because I noticed with him too, in what I know of you, a lot of the thoughts were kind of this is something that gay would probably say, right? If he were back in that time and in this kind of situation and not doing what he's doing. Did you have that that similar experience when creating this character?
Gay Hendricks 21:28
Yes. Again, I heard a little snippet of dialogue and saw where he was when he was saying it. And I heard this little snippet of dialogue. And again, I can't remember the exact one, but I would think who would say that kind of thing, you know, and then I thought, Wow, he's an old fashioned guy. He lives in London, and he's, he's an aristocrat, but he doesn't, you know, he's not has to do a lot of aristocratic things. He's just sort of a minor aristocrat with a title. And so, but he's got enough money. To get by on so he doesn't have to work or anything, but he's kind of bored. And so what's he gonna do, he's gonna become a private detective, and solve problems for people. And so and he's gonna write books about it. So there's about three layers of me in there, you know that. And that's half the fun of it, too, is like right now, in the new book.
It's called the final adventure of serial hide. And you'll have to read to the last page to find out exactly why it's called that. But I'm not going to give away any secrets. I promise. I'm not going to blab any but everybody's going to have to read down to the last sentence to find out exactly what this means. But this book had a special significance for me, because it was the third one in the series. And I, I think I hit my stride really, in this third book that I finally embodied the character and I had a lot of fun with him in the first two books and everything, but in this new Ah, you know, now now he's there. And I really felt like I was channeling, you know that he was writing through me. And I love that. And sometimes Actually, he would say things that I didn't even agree with. And the things that I thought were not politically correct or something like that, but I'm not going to get in the way of my own character, you know, so all the politically incorrect stuff is in there, you know, and so there's probably something to offend just about everybody, but there's, there's plenty in there to make everybody laugh, no matter who you are.
Nicole Holland 23:35
Definitely funny, definitely endearing. And what I found interesting about that aspect is that you didn't always live this conscious lifestyle. You didn't always have this amazing, beautiful partnership. You have gone through lots of stuff in your life before you figure things out. And one of the things just from your own personal journey story. That I really appreciate with that. And the way you share it openly with people is that many times we get into our minds of God to be at the top of this particular like, this is my industry or this is my job, this is my, whatever, gotta get to the top ranks of that. And that's what people aspire to. And forget about the zona genius, forget about being enjoy, forget about these kinds of things, because they're not consciously they're not aware of it. And you've gone through all that and you had great success. And I think too, with you're figuring it out. It didn't just happen all overnight where it was like today, I am awake and my whole world is changing. It was over years and years. And I think that's just so inspiring to people to your audience, people that look up to you, respect you and listen to you and act on your counsel. And until I found that really Interesting and the character and endearing that you wrote this character from a space of being amazing and flawed for lack of a better term.
Gay Hendricks 25:14
Well, yeah, I think you're probably familiar with the myth of the wounded healer, you know that I think to be a healer to be helpful to other people, you've got to have explored your own wounds. You know, for example, a lot of people don't realize they look at you know, I'm 180 pounds six foot guy now, but when I was 24 years old, I weighed 320 pounds, I had a lot of glandular problems. When I was a kid, I was a real fat kid, and I never got it handled until I was 24 years old. But, you know, I used to carry around a lot of weight and it was a very painful part of my life, but in finding out how to deal with that and how to move beyond it and, and how to clear it up as a problem. It told me a lot about how human beings can always to reinvent themselves no matter where they are and what they've done. And so I know that in my bones in my skin because I've done it. And so when I sit down with a person today, you know, like, I still do some executive consulting, people come here and spend a day with us or half day, that kind of thing. And when I'm sitting with a person, I know they can change their lives, you know, because I know it can be done. And so I think that if you can sit down with somebody who has experienced that kind of change in themselves, it's really a booster in your own healing. And I was blessed early on in my life to have been mentored by some really amazing people, including a person that I probably wouldn't be here without jack downing, who's a great psychiatrist in California in the early 70s. And also was one of the first people to do rolfing in that area. So he was, he was the first person to really teach me a lot About how the mind and the body interacted with each other. It was incredibly useful to me because I had been trained in a very heady way. You know, there was nothing much about body psychology in those days or body transformation. And but now, you know, if you do transformational work without paying attention to your body, it's not going to work. And thankfully, over the past 40 years, many people have discovered the power of things like dance therapy and myofascial transformation and things like that, that you can do with your body to really reinvent the literal space you live in.
Nicole Holland 27:37
I love it. Absolutely. What would you love my audience to do? So you've been you said, you got to read to the end. We want we want people to buy this book.
Gay Hendricks 27:45
Oh, yeah, you gotta buy the book. You gotta buy the book. It's a ton of fun. Definitely escape from the every day but still so smart. So it's not it's not a silly book. It's still such a smart book that if you're a big thinker you're really going to enjoy. So I will have links on the show notes page. But if you want to tell anybody anything else about getting the book, please do.
Gay Hendricks 28:14
Yes. Well one thing about my books that one reason I write them is I want to also include in every one things that people need to learn about their own psychology and their own spiritual development. So I try to kind of sneak in some messages about that kind of thing. And sir Errol is one kind of delivery system for that and Tenzing Norbu my other detective is another kind of he delivers a lot of Asian wisdom as he goes about showing his work. Sir Errol is more Western wisdom and but they both have a message to deliver. And so I don't know if you've ever heard the old story about way back in the Middle Ages, there was a border between to countries and every week, this fellow would come with a string of 30 donkeys. And the border crossing inspector was convinced this old guy was a smuggler. And so every week he'd look through all of his baggage and everything. He could never find any contraband, that the guy was smuggling. And so finally, after many years of this, the, the inspector was going to be retiring. And he asked the old fella, he said, I know you're a smuggler, but what is it? You've been smuggling all these years? And he said, donkeys and so he was, you know, it wasn't it wasn't the load there was carrying it was the things themselves. And so I do a lot of donkey smuggling in my books. I like to bring in some spiritual principles and some ideas that are helpful but in a way that is not like preachy. I love it. If there's anything more you want to share before we say goodbye, the floor. Well, sir, the big mystery that everybody needs to know after they read the book is is this the really the final Errol Hyde and so I'm going to have to return at another occasion to give you the answer to that, but I promise to do so if you're kind enough to invite me again.
Nicole Holland 30:10
100% you have open door policy for the Nicole Holland show, Gay. You're welcome back anytime you want.
Gay Hendricks 30:16
Good. Thank you so much, Nicole. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Nicole Holland 30:20
I hope you loved this episode as much as I did. We have so many more amazing episodes lined up for you on the new Nicole Holland show. But for now, I want to have some fun with you and give you something super amazing. So in addition to gays riveting mystery novels, we also touched on his newly released book, conscious luck eight secrets to intentionally change your fortune. It is out now. It is incredible, as I mentioned before, and I would love to gift you an audiobook copy. I love audiobooks. That's how I listen. That's how I get my learn on. And if you are the same, then you're going to want to participate in this little giveaway. So the giveaway is intended for a number of purposes. One, I want to support you in your learning and your receiving of something amazing. And I also want to spread the word to have more people tune in to the Nicole Holland show the guests that are coming on so, so amazing, so much good stuff. And the way that I'm really pivoting This is being more intentional with bringing folks on to talk about living life and doing business on your own terms. As I talked about in the intro, you know, I've been doing more of that myself. And I love talking with others who are successfully doing that too. I have really noticed a lot of folks telling me Wow, you know, you're so brave or wow I can't believe you're doing this. I've always wanted to do this. And it got me thinking that there are so many people doing life on their terms. And I feel like we really, really need to highlight that it does. It's not just for some, it's for everyone, anybody who wants to live an abundant life and to have amazing dreams fulfilled, it is possible. It is so possible and it is actually the way we're supposed to be living, but we get bombarded with messages of not being good enough and why we don't deserve things. And you know what, I am sick and tired of it. I'm sick and tired of hearing it. I'm sick and tired of watching it. And I am sick and tired of that being the prevailing message in this world. And so the Nicole Holland show is moving forward in the direction of really helping people understand that everything they want is possible in a business context, and also how to get So with that, I want to spread the word and I need your help spreading the word I cannot do it by myself. So in this giveaway where I want to gift to you a audiobook copy of Gay's book Conscious Luck, I would love for you to help me spread the word. So the way to do that to wait the way to get into the running the way to get an entry, your first entry there's three chances to enter. So entry number one, just go on over to @TheNicoleHolland on Instagram. That's my Instagram handle the Nicole Holland follow me and share this episode to your Instagram story. That is it. You're going to tag me so I know you shared it right follow me and tag me and that's your first entry. Then if you want a bonus entry so a second chance to win. Also tag gay Hendricks his Instagram handle is at Hendrix dot gay so that's h e n d r m ck s dot gay then if you want a third chance to win a third entry, just go ahead and in your story making sure we're both tagged share your biggest takeaway or what you loved most about this episode share something to let people know it's worth listening to. Once you do that, I will enter you to win either one time two times or three times and I'm going to draw the winner and then alert the winner via direct message through Instagram on June seventh Sunday June 7, so get those entries in by the end of Saturday, June 6, and you will be entered to win I do want to just disclose and disclaim that this giveaway has nothing to do with Instagram. It is not sponsored by Instagram. It is not endorsed by Instagram. It is purely 100% done Nicole Holland running this offering this buying this and gift This to one lucky winner. And good luck. I hope you win. I appreciate your support in getting the show out there. I appreciate you're celebrating this interview with gay and I wish you all the best. Think about it right? He teaches this in conscious luck. You want to make sure you believe you're lucky and if you do that will help you get anything your heart desires. So until next time, be more you My friends and I look forward to reconnecting next week.
Transcribed by Otter